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Marriage on a Tightrope: 077: Interracial Marriage (Jen & Jameson Holman)

On this episode, Jen and Jameson Holman talk about their experience being an interracial couple in America in 2020.

We feel that race is too important of an issue not to dedicate some time on the podcast.

We hope you all enjoy learning from the Holman’s.

We also have just a few spots left in our “Workshop on a Tightrope” 6-week online course.  Go to eventbrite for more details and to sign up!


5 thoughts on “Marriage on a Tightrope: 077: Interracial Marriage (Jen & Jameson Holman)”

  1. OK. Jameson does not have a regionally non-specific accent. He very much has a southern drawl and sounds like a college educated southern white person – as opposed to a college educated southern black person or a college educated northern black person.
    The neutral US dialect that national broadcast journalists are taught in university Voice and Diction classes is North East American Standard.
    Jameson does not speak in that dialect. He also does not have a west coast dialect or a Utah dialect.
    Really, everyone speaks with some form of dialect.

    I say all of that as an African American who was born and raised in DC and attended university (with a Communications/Theatre major and a minor in Spanish) in TN. I also speak Spanish, Japanese, Russian.
    My default dialect is North East American Standard and, on the phone, people usually assume I am white. But, I sometimes code switch to black dialects and Cuban, Tokyo or Moscow dialects when I speak those respective languages.

    Love your podcasts!!!

  2. Hmmn. I would say that Jameson’s default dialect is college educated southern white. His change in timbre when he thinks he’s code switching to white doesn’t really do much.
    When he talks to his grandma, he probably code switches to a southern black dialect – which includes being louder than white dialects.
    And that it’s also a southern black dialect that is not specifically a southern black university dialect.

    Just adding some other black dialects:
    My father and his first cousin are from TN but attended Howard University. I can distinguish the Howard University dialect. University of DC is predominantly African American – I can distinguish the difference between the Howard dialect and the UDC dialect.
    I have first cousins on my dad’s side who were born and raised in Detroit. They speak in a college educated black dialect that is specific to Detroit.
    My mother is from South Carolina, both of her parents spoke with a southern college educated black dialect. But, my grandfather had a very, very specific dialect that I had always associated just with him. Around 12 years ago, my mom’s cousin came to visit and I told her, “Wow! You sound exactly like Grandad!”
    She looked at me and said, “What are you trying to say? You saying I sound Gichee?”
    I had never heard of Gichee before. When I goggled it, I learned it’s related to Gullah culture.
    When I googled Gullah, I understood why my grandfather insisted that rice must always be served with dinner, no matter what else is served.

    So, just as there are many white dialects in the US, there are also many black dialects in the US. As well as many Latino dialects.

  3. Well, I think the quick and easy example of white privilege is that white people can very easily find a Band-Aid that reasonably matches their skin tone. White people don’t have to fret much about wearing a Band-Aid that is in ridiculous contrast to your skin.
    And it’s only within the last week that Band-Aid has finally decided to over a range of colors for Band-Aids to better match a broad range of human skin tones.
    White privilege isn’t really about economics, it’s about all the ways that the US is set to cater to white people.
    Try thinking about right-handed privilege. And all the ways the US is set to cater to right-handed people. Left-handed people can quickly and easily toss you a list of ways that they are inconvenienced, but right-handed people don’t have to think about it. How many left-handed scissors are in an office? If I choose to borrow one and struggle through using it (I am right-handed), I have to actively remind myself to return it to the spot I grabbed it from, rather than just assume it’s equally easy for everyone to grab a different pair.
    Same for the privileges of being not being blind or deaf. Think of all the ways our society is set to provide information via sight instead of some other sense.
    White people will be OK encountering a cop if they just comply, but black people don’t have that luxury. White people get benefit of the doubt that they are members of the community pool or community gym, but some white people assume people of color must not be members of the community pool or community gym.
    That’s not really about not having economic privilege. Even when we have economic privilege, we aren’t necessarily treated with the equal respect.
    In Mormon culture, male privilege is not really about economic privilege. Regardless of economic privilege priesthood holder have more respect – which is why women who push to allow women to gain the priesthood are excommunicated.
    Straight privilege also is not about economic privilege in Mormon culture. Think about all the ways Mormon culture is set to support adult heterosexual married couples.
    That’s the privilege part – it’s not really about economics.
    White privilege includes being Mormon and never being told, “If you behave well and don’t sin, one day your curse of dark skin will be taken away and you will be white and delightsome.”
    (That might not still be a thing after “blacks got the priesthood”.)

    (I‘m a Never-Mormon who became an atheist in second grade, but…I religiously listen to Mormon as well as atheist podcasts.)

    Also, white people don’t have to worry much about stereotypes in that there is a wide range of depictions of white people.
    Back in 1996, I watched the Martin Lawrence film, A Thin Line Between Love And Hate. At one point Lawrence’s character visits his black girlfriend’s mansion. He stands near the pool.
    I think, “Wow! A black persons with a pool! Who would have thought? A black person with a pool? Even the Huxtables didn’t have a pool!!!”
    A few days later, I was all, “Wait a second! In the small neighborhood Where I grew up, filled with 15 Huxtable family homes, 4 of them had swimming pools. And I swam in all of them when I was a kid!!! Why did I find it strange to see a black-owned home with a swimming pool?”
    Because I had never seen that on TV or in a film before.
    And the power of TV and film is that if you never see it, it’s not really a thing. Even if you have experienced it in real life.
    This is why representation in mass media is so important – not just including people of color, but also including respectable representations of diverse cultures…so that we aren’t just seeing brown-skinned people portraying white, European-American culture.

    People say All Lives Matter when they don’t understand that

  4. Hey Alan, since your probably the one moderating this commenting so I know there’s no chance it will be posted. I just wanted to say you have done a terrible job on this interview. All black people do not think the same. Alot of black people can’t stand BLM because BLM they are a bunch of whiny little bitches. We have gone from the peaceful marches of Martin Luther king to the racist views of malcom ex and alot of black people I know are sick of it. I will never donate to your cause again, you and your wife have fallen for the liberal trap of dividing the races and your part of it now.

    1. John,

      I’m happy to approve your comment. You talk about us falling into traps, and I can appreciate that sentiment. Read your comment again and see the trap you fell into yourself. “All black people do not think the same.” Followed by “BLM they are a bunch of whiny little bitches.” All of them? No one that supports BLM ISN’T a whiny little bitch?

      We read the comment from our police officer friend as an attempt to show other sides of this issue. Two days after we interviewed Jameson and Jen, we took a care basket to our police officer friend and started to organize a lunch we could cater to local law enforcement. The cops are NOT the enemy. White people are not the enemy. There IS racism in America. We CAN do better.

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